The Biden administration continues to push for a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas in Gaza and de-escalation between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon. In Europe, the administration has revealed intelligence that North Korean troops are being trained in Russia to help its war efforts.
VOA White House bureau chief Patsy Widakuswara spoke with White House national security communications adviser John Kirby on the latest developments in the wars in the Middle East and Ukraine.
This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.
VOA: [U.S.] Secretary [of State] Antony Blinken today warned Israel against a protracted campaign in Lebanon. He warned Israel to avoid civilian casualties, not to endanger U.N. peacekeepers and the Lebanese army. The only way Israel can do that is by operating a targeted campaign. Is it operating a targeted campaign?
White House national security communications adviser John Kirby: We would like to see no civilian casualties and no damage to civilian infrastructure to the maximum extent possible. We have told the Israelis that we don’t support near daily strikes in densely populated areas, and that’s part of the message that [Blinken] delivered when he was there. We believe that there’s still a diplomatic path to be found here to bring this conflict with Hezbollah and Lebanon to a close. That was one of the reasons that Secretary Blinken traveled there.
VOA: Do you support Israeli demands for an expanded U.N. peacekeeping force to include north of the Litani River?
Kirby: I’m not going to get into any specific proposals one way or the other. I don’t think we’re at that point right now. … What we support is de-escalation. What we support is minimization of civilian casualties and damage to civilian infrastructure. We also continue to support Israel’s right to defend itself.
VOA: What about Israel’s efforts to dismantle Hezbollah infrastructure in Lebanon? How far can you accept the cost of that?
Kirby: Look, they have done an extraordinary amount of work towards already dismantling Hezbollah’s capability, including the killing of [Hassan Nasrallah], their leader. Hezbollah is not Hamas. They are in many ways superior in terms of military capability and resources. So, it’s a different kind of a fight. It’s a different kind of enemy that they face.
And I would remind that even just in the last 24 hours, more than 100 rockets and drones [were] launched by Hezbollah towards Israeli citizens who are just trying to live their lives on that side of the Blue Line, as well. So, it remains a viable threat to the Israeli people, and we’re going to continue to talk to the Israelis about how they go after that threat, because how they do that matters significantly.
VOA: Ten days ago, the administration set a 30-day deadline for Israel to improve Palestinian access to aid. Can you update us on the progress?
Kirby: There has been some progress, and as you heard Secretary Blinken say during his travels, more needs to be done. But there has been an increase of trucks flowing into North Gaza; specifically, the Erez Crossing is back open. We want to see more.
VOA: Israel announced that Mossad chief David Barnea will meet with CIA Director Bill Burns and the Qatari prime minister in Doha. Is there anything about that meeting that you can tell us?
Kirby: Without talking to the CIA director’s travel or meetings, I won’t do that. But you saw the prime minister already announced that there’s another meeting in Doha of negotiators, and we’re grateful to see this progress continue. We’re grateful to see yet another meeting here, and we’re hopeful that now, with Mr. Sinwar gone, Hamas might be more willing to sit down and negotiate in good faith and come up with a solution that gets a cease-fire of at least some duration, and gets those hostages home with their families where they belong, as well as to your earlier question, gives us a pause in the fighting that can help us all work towards a more dramatic increase in humanitarian assistance.
I’m not suggesting that more can’t be done now. Even while Gaza remains an active combat zone, more can be done, more should be done. But if you can end the fighting, then you can definitely make it easier to get humanitarian assistance.
VOA: Does the administration see [Yahya Sinwar’s brother] Mohamed Sinwar as somebody with influence on the negotiations?
Kirby: I think it’s unclear right now where the leadership of Hamas goes, and I would just say that we’re watching this very, very closely, as you might imagine, monitoring it.
Regardless of how Hamas tries to fill the vacuum left by Sinwar, they have an opportunity before them right now to help end this war, to get those hostages home and to do the right thing.
VOA: Let’s move on to North Korea and Russia. [Russian President] Vladimir Putin appears to have implicitly acknowledged what you laid out yesterday, that North Korean troops are in Russia to help their war efforts. How do you see this?
Kirby: We see it the same way as we laid out yesterday. We know that there are at least several thousand North Korean soldiers in three military training bases in eastern Russia. Now, exactly what they’re being trained to do, we don’t know. Whether and how they’ll be deployed in this war against Ukraine, we don’t know that either. But it is a violation of U.N. Security Council resolutions that, I would remind you, Russia themselves signed up to. The procurement of arms and ammunition from North Korea is a violation of U.N. Security Council existing resolutions that Russia signed up to. We’re going to watch this very, very closely.
VOA: What is the geopolitical implication for Kim Jong Un now that he’s willing to send his troops to die for Putin? Are you concerned that in return, Russia could help North Korea improve the reach of their ICBMs [intercontinental ballistic missiles] to hit American cities, for example?
Kirby: That’s what we’re watching closely to see. We don’t know exactly what Mr. Kim thinks he’s getting out of this arrangement. And it’s worrisome. As you heard the secretary of defense say the other day, this potential move here by the North Koreans to put soldiers on the ground, literally skin in the game when it comes to fighting Ukraine, is not only going to have implications in Ukraine and on that battlefield, but it’s going to have implications in the Indo-Pacific.
What we don’t know right now is exactly what that looks like. What does Kim think he’s getting out of this? It is possible that there could be some provision by Russia to enhance and improve North Korean military capabilities? Again, that would just further destabilize a very tense region.
VOA: You said these North Korean soldiers are legitimate military targets. But would you consider taking direct military action against them as the head of the U.S. House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, Mike Turner, suggested?
Kirby: The United States is not directly involved in combat operations in or around Ukraine. The president has been clear about that. We are providing Ukraine with the kinds of tools, capabilities and weapons that they need to defend themselves. And when we say they’re legitimate military targets, these North Korean soldiers, we mean they would become legitimate military targets of the Ukrainian Armed Forces should they be involved in operations against Ukraine.
VOA: China has said that they have no information on these North Korean troops. Do you believe them?
Kirby: I’ll let the Chinese speak to what they see or they don’t see. What I said yesterday stands today. We’re going to certainly be communicating with our PRC [People’s Republic of China] counterparts about this.
VOA: Last month you also confirmed that Iran transferred shipments of domestic missiles to Russia. Now we have these North Korean troops fighting for Russia. What is your assessment of this trilateral cooperation?
Kirby: Number one, it certainly shows Mr. Putin’s increasing desperation, and quite frankly, his weakness, that he has to reach out to the likes of Kim Jong Un and the supreme leader in Tehran for assistance to fight Ukraine. Clearly, he’s under a lot of military pressure. We know he’s losing 1,200 soldiers a day. He suffered more than 530,000 casualties in the time he’s been fighting in Ukraine. So, he’s clearly under pressure, and he’s not … being honest with the Russian people about what he’s doing and what he’s losing and how bloody and lethal this war has been on his own armed forces.
Number two, I think it certainly speaks to worrisome defense relationships between these countries that are now growing and deepening. They’re worrying not just because of what might be the effects in Ukraine, they’re worrying because of what might be the effects in other parts of the world. You and I were just talking about what Kim Jong Un might be getting out of this. Let’s talk about Iran, because Iran, certainly we know, is interested in advanced aviation capabilities, for instance, from Russia. Now, again, I don’t know that we’ve seen it all consummated yet, but Iran being able to benefit from Russian military technology is also not good for the Middle East region.
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